Chasing vehicle Not Starting

J

Jasmina

Member
Sep 10, 2017
22
Warner Robins, GA 31093
I recently purchased a 05 TB LS 4.2L and it won't crank. Not a mechanic but my dad didn't raise a fool. It has to be a fuel system issue. Spark plugs are good. Bought a brand new battery and posts. Had codes pulled and all it came back with is P0420 (Catalytic Converter not performing at threshold) and P0480 (Cooling fan 1 control circuit has a malfunction). I have watched practically every YouTube video in relation to the possible issue. The guy I bought it from swears the fuel pump is brand new.

I initially thought it might be the ignition switch it alternator.

I am willing to fix it myself and all very confident I can.

I keep getting the run around because I am a female.

Just need a little help!
 
fools sometime come in different varieties... :smile:
sorry couldn't resist.

anyways, back up. Your "description" of your problem is somewhat "misleading" maybe. You say "it won't crank". If nothing happens when you turn the key to start... this is a "won't crank" state, then fueling is NOT the issue. IF you are trying to say that the engine "just cranks and cranks", this is referred to as a "crank but no start" condition which indeed can be a "fueling issue" among other things. So you need to re-state your problem so that we can head in the right direction. Further as a basic "fueling test", you can try cranking the engine (starting) and have someone spray in starting fluid into the intake area... if the engine then tries to start, you then can indeed head down the "fueling issue" path.
 
Okay, thank you so much for leading me on the right direction. Now i can clarify. When starting fluid is sprayed in the intake, it does crank.

Again, the person I purchased from says the fuel pump is new. His personal mechanic hinted that it could be the fuel pressure regulator. But then just gave up trying.
 
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Jasmina said:
When starting fluid is sprayed in the intake, it does crank.
Click to expand...

When you say "crank", do you mean actually start and run? Cranking means the starter is engaging to turn over the engine irrespective if it starts and runs or not. Starting fluid would not change if it cranks or not but would influence it to start and run for a bit.
 
Mooseman said:
When you say "crank", do you mean actually start and run? Cranking means the starter is engaging to turn over the engine irrespective if it starts and runs or not. Starting fluid would not change if it cranks or not but would influence it to start and run for a bit.
Click to expand...

Okay, so when the starter fluid is sprayed in the intake, it will start and run for that day. And not the whole day, just a few hours. As previously mentioned, the personal mechanic for the man I bought it from said he changed the fuel pump and thought it might be the fuel pressure regulator. However, he never attempted to check and see. I bought this truck on 08/31/17 and haven't been able to drive it since.
 
that's a "better / different story".
you will likely need to measure the fuel pressure along with checking if the fuel pump is actually running. It runs for a "few seconds" during startup to bring the pressure up, then turns off until the engine detects "running". So if you turn your key on but not to start, then off, then back to on again, then off... etc, then ultimately try to turn to start, does the truck start? IF so, this would indicate that the pump needed some "effort" to get going or coming up to pressure. There is a pressure testing outlet on the fuel line / rail area that allows you to test for pressure. Depressing the valve will give you a "spurt" of gas if there is pressure... WATCH IT... wear glasses and other protective material as the spray maybe significant. IF there is no pressure, you can go from there.
 
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My apologies if the way I explained it earlier was confusing. I won't lie, I have been confused myself. But I will try what was just suggested and get back to you guys.

P. S. Y'all are awesome
 
So if you get it started by spraying starting fluid in the intake, will it run indefinitely until you shut it off? How does it run while it's running?
 
jsheahawk said:
So if you get it started by spraying starting fluid in the intake, will it run indefinitely until you shut it off? How does it run while it's running?
Click to expand...

While running, it drives smooth. After spraying the starter fluid in the intake, i would say I have about maybe a good two to three hours and it will continue to start and run. After that, it won't start and run unless more starter fluid is sprayed.
 
budwich said:
that's a "better / different story".
you will likely need to measure the fuel pressure along with checking if the fuel pump is actually running. It runs for a "few seconds" during startup to bring the pressure up, then turns off until the engine detects "running". So if you turn your key on but not to start, then off, then back to on again, then off... etc, then ultimately try to turn to start, does the truck start? IF so, this would indicate that the pump needed some "effort" to get going or coming up to pressure. There is a pressure testing outlet on the fuel line / rail area that allows you to test for pressure. Depressing the valve will give you a "spurt" of gas if there is pressure... WATCH IT... wear glasses and other protective material as the spray maybe significant. IF there is no pressure, you can go from there.
Click to expand...

Well, I did check the pressure and nothing sprayed out. I do mean nothing. Not even air.
 
I'd suspect the fuel pressure regulator but yours is built into the fuel pump housing. Any idea what brand was installed? If it's some unknown eBay Chinese thing, it could be bad. You need to get an actual pressure test when it primes when you turn the key, which looks to be the problem. It has to be able to hold pressure while starting. If it's not hold pressure after priming, it won't start.
 
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Mooseman said:
I'd suspect the fuel pressure regulator but yours is built into the fuel pump housing. Any idea what brand was installed? If it's some unknown eBay Chinese thing, it could be bad. You need to get an actual pressure test when it primes when you turn the key, which looks to be the problem. It has to be able to hold pressure while starting. If it's not hold pressure after priming, it won't start.
Click to expand...

Yes sir, I have found that the fuel pressure regulator is not where other models have shown. And yes sir, they did order the fuel pump off of eBay. Which could explain a lot also. I bought this car on 08/31/17 and was only able to drive it twice. I have researched every possible possible issue and fix for it. I have suspected the fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator since the beginning.

budwich said:
before you get to far, makes sure you check the operation of the fuel pump relay.
Click to expand...

Glad you said that. The mechanic who was looking at it also mentioned that the relay looked to not be in the right place when he put the new fuel pump on. He said he thought he fixed it back.

[ Mod edit: Please use the multi-quote button (+Quote) to reply to more than one post. Thanks ]
 
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that is all fine but I quote your first post ... "I am willing to fix it myself and all very confident I can". Again, you need to check this (the relay) for yourself otherwise your "Not a mechanic but my dad didn't raise a fool" and "I keep getting the run around because I am a female." will be more than likely true (but maybe with a few words changed... :smile:). IF you can't do it, get some one to actually show you that it was done and read up on how it is done so you know what they are doing is good. Checks of a relay are straight forward... a meter to measure incoming powering conditions to see if the relay is operating are "standard" and indeed the relay operates. Your problem could be as simple as poor contacts in the fuse box such that the relay is not operating regularly. Further electrical checks towards the pump (resistance), from the relay position, will likely determine if your pump is suspect.
 
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I highly doubt that. With it missing I'd say it would just make your truck run like crap and should pop a code for a vacuum leak.
 
P0420 Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1) could be caused by your fuel problem, if the system is thinking it's too lean and has been trying to adjust to that , but there are a number of other possibilities as well:

A damaged or failed oxygen / O2 sensor
Downstream oxygen sensor (HO2S) wiring damaged or connected improperly The engine coolant temperature sensor is not working properly
Damaged or leaking exhaust manifold / catalytic converter / muffler / exhaust pipe
Failed or underperforming catalytic converter (likely)
Retarded spark timing
The oxygen sensors in front and behind the converter are reporting too similar of readings
Leaking fuel injector or high fuel pressure
Cylinder misfire
Oil contamination

My guess is that your fuel delivery issue is creating other problems as the computer tries to compensate. In the process, it may have damaged the O2 sensor, but I doubt it killed the cat, since you say you were only able to drive it twice....unless it had a problem prior to you getting it. If it was misfiring, you'd be seeing the CEL flashing when you did have it running.

Check for wiring left unplugged, too. If they left the breather hose off, no telling if something else got left off, or not securely connected.

The P0480 Cooling Fan Relay 1 Control Circuit is also a little generic, and could be due to a number of things:
Faulty fan control relay 1
Fan control relay harness is open or shorted
Circuit electrical connections poor
Faulty cooling fan 1
Faulty coolant temperature sensor
Fan cooling fan harness is open or shorted
Cooling fan circuit poor electrical connection
Intake air temperature (IAT) failure
A/C selector switch
A/C refrigerant pressure sensor
Vehicle speed sensor (VSS)

Since you mentioned the mechanic thinking a relay was "not in the right place", I'm rather wondering just what he fixed, and what he may have disturbed in the process. Check the fan connection, and look for possible chafed wiring. Could just be that something didn't get reattached properly.

I don't think these codes are the cause of your no-start situation, but they may have cropped up because of the problem and subsequent efforts to fix it.

Good Luck!

Chris
 
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This is very nerve racking indeed and confusing. IF the truck did and does run for some time and then dies out and you let it sit and the pressure does not come from the rail then you either depending on the truck and no fuel is leaking.

A problem with the fuel filter or the fuel pump itself. Some models have the filter in the tank with the pump, but I think you just have a shite pump. Really though, but a decent ac delco or good name brand pump from rockauto and be done with it and make sure all the connections and tubes are good on there with no bad connections.
 
Wish it was easier for us to check and replace our fuel pumps. I'm always envious of the vehicles that have an access panel under the rear seats or in the boot (trunk).
First time I dropped a tank to replace the pump was in a 1990 Accord and it wasnt fun, then I found out they had an access panel and i was like grrrr...
 
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Mooseman said:
I'd suspect the fuel pressure regulator but yours is built into the fuel pump housing. Any idea what brand was installed? If it's some unknown eBay Chinese thing, it could be bad. You need to get an actual pressure test when it primes when you turn the key, which looks to be the problem. It has to be able to hold pressure while starting. If it's not hold pressure after priming, it won't start.
Click to expand...

I chuckle when I read the "eBay Chinese" reasoning for failure.

Question: If Chinese products are so crappy, what do ALL the millions of Chinese people use? Do they order USA? LOL

I just went through hell with a USA made exhaust system... Quality control sucks,,, and typical USA lack in Customer Service.

I install Surveillance Systems.... hundreds of them... and they're all built in China... I have no reliability issues with those components...

Serious question though,,, is there a USA Fuel Pump Mfr? Even AC Delco uses overseas sources...
 
Of course not all Chinese products are junk as there are probably levels of quality that they, and USA made stuff, is made with.

Mooseman said:
If it's some unknown eBay Chinese thing, it could be bad.
Click to expand...

I said if it's a cheap Chinese pump, it could have crapped out, and I have personal experience with that. I tried one and got burned. Never again. If it's an unknown store brand, they could have stuffed the box with a cheapo pump.

Just because it's made in China doesn't mean it's junk, just like because it's made in the USA (or Canada) means it's the highest quality.

And please don't compare a possible wrong part sent to you as being junk. That is a human error issue. They could have a great product with poor customer service. Completely different issue.
 
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Well, remember the hose I asked about in previous responses? Well, I ordered that hose and put that hose on my truck and guess what happened, my truck now cranks up and id running. I had a friend who drives like a bat out of hell drive it on the highway and no problems. I have successfully been able to get it to crank and actually run almost 25 times.

Thanks to everyone who posted, even the ones who were skeptical because I didn't know the right terms to use.
 
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Jasmina said:
Well, remember the hose I asked about in previous responses? Well, I ordered that hose and put that hose on my truck and guess what happened, my truck now cranks up and id running. I had a friend who drives like a bat out of hell drive it on the highway and no problems. I have successfully been able to get it to crank and actually run almost 25 times.

Thanks to everyone who posted, even the ones who were skeptical because I didn't know the right terms to use.
Click to expand...

We'll then, I guess I stand corrected. Some times it is just the small things that cause big problems. I'm glad you got it up and running right.
 
Lol, I got excited too quick. Now I did drive it all day yesterday 09/22/17, woke up this morning and the dang thing won't crank and run again and my battery seems drained. Fuel pump is operating as its supposed to. The alternator is the issue. Tempted to post it for sale. Lol, but I need it. Ugh
 
Your going to have a great time with the bottom bolt on the alternator. It really is a doozy. After you swap that out I'd have your battery checked out just to make sure it's up to par.
I wouldn't sell. These trucks are pretty cheap and easy to keep on the road. Just my :twocents:.
 
The battery is brand new and I will get it checked. I will take it back if needed. It has a warranty.

My dad says rockauto.com. Their prices are very good.

And a lot of people have said the motor is great in these models.

I will say this, it felt so good to drive it. It drove awesomely.
 
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When i tell you that my frustration with this vehicle is off the charts.

Remember, I put the hose on and drive it all day, literally on Friday. Saturday, it would not run for . Yesterday, Sunday, I just tried to crank it, and guess what, it did crank, it did run for about 4 hours. What in the world?

Any suggestions?
 
you have an electrical issue in and around the fuse box.
but first let's back up. The term "cranking" as discussed here is when the starter turns the engine... like in the old days when people would get out and crank the engine by hand... that is CRANKING. When you keep referring to cranking, make sure that you indicating that the starter is turning and the engine is turning. IF that is the case, then the portion of the starting system dealing with the starter and CRANKING the engine is OK. IF this happens every time you turn the key to start, then you do not have a starter issue or a CRANKING issue. The reason I bring this up is your post comment quote "woke up this morning and the dang thing won't crank and run again and my battery seems drained".... this now sounds like you didn't have enough battery power for the starter to turn the engine.... was that true????? because now you are "jumping" to the conclusion that you have an alternator issue which may or may not be true... but I am not sure what to base that on.

Now you can move on, when you get a "NO START" condition (engine cranks but doesn't run), get out your trusty can of starting fluid and spray some into take. IF this works in getting the engine to "sputter" / start, then you have a fuelling issue. As suggested, ensure that you have checked the fuel pump relay. Just replacing it is NOT checking it as it may be an issue in the socket where the relay is inserted. You need to check those contacts to ensure that voltage is arriving for the coil of the relay and that relay is in fact closing (making it contact). Further, you can temporarily jumper the contact points in the relay holder to act as a "manual closer" to see if this indeed causes the pump to run and thus start your vehicle.
Probably a lot of things for you to digest but it is what it is. Find a friend who can help you out and hopefully has some knowledge of what things are about.
 
Again, i keep forgetting with the term cranking. Sorry. It will not start. The bootleg mechanic who was working on it before I purchased it was able to get it to start with starter fluid.

I hear the fuel pump come on and go off. The battery was purchased the day I purchased the truck. this had been a miserable month. Just want to drive my truck.

Back to the drawing board.
 
Here are some documents to help with the codes. It would be more helpful with a scan tool.

And it seems to me that the fuel pump is either intermittent or just isn't building enough pressure when the key is turned on just because of the fact that starter fluid helps.
However... I have a document which has Engine Crank But No Start. It leads you to check a few things but ultimately in the end to replace the crankshaft position sensor. I'm not saying that's exactly what's causing your issue here.
 

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Well, I am back. The car was driving just fine until last Friday, 10/20/17. It won't make a noise. The fuel pump comes on for a few seconds, starter makes a noise and the lights come on, but thats all it does. It doesn't make a freaking noise. Battery tested good. Any ideas.
 
Could be the starter. Has anyone tried jumping the starter relay to force it to turn?
 
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