SOLVED! Looking for an alignment expert

Shdwdrgn

Shdwdrgn

Member
Dec 4, 2011
635
A few years ago a kid pulled in front of me, and we hit front wheels together. I had the frame checked and it's straight. Since that time I have also replaced both the upper and lower A-frames, the steering rack and tie rod ends, and the wheel bearings. The tire shop has run *multiple* alignments and they swear it's straight with plenty of room for adjustment.

When I got my truck it run beautiful on the highway, rarely affected by grooves in the road or even cross winds. But now I can't go down smooth cement without it pulling or wandering. Nobody locally has had any suggestions on what might be wrong.

Now I assume the impact of the wheels probably bent something around the wheels, or the mounting points to the frame itself, but the measurements I took against points on the frame seem to be within 1/16" on each side (as best I can tell), and I've never found any obvious issue to explain the wandering -- plus since the alignment is no problem it seems to rule out some things. So this is kind of my last desperate attempt to see if anyone might have any ideas that I can check without precision measuring equipment. I dunno, maybe something in the spindle or some other bit I'm not thinking of? I've put another 50K+ on the truck since then and nothing has fallen off, I'm just really annoyed that I can't get it to go straight down the road any more.

Help?
 
Check the bushings in the lower control arm brackets is the first thing I would check.
 
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Thanks, but those were actually replaced as a unit with the lower control arms (what I called the A-frames above). And then the bushings on the upper control arms started wearing through a couple years ago and so I replaced the whole arms. The steering rack&pinion assembly was damaged in the accident so it was replaced by insurance.

The measurements I referenced above were taken with the wheels off, and measuring to different points between the frame and the control arms. The way the impact happened, if it had bent anything then it should have moved my passenger-side wheel backwards, which isn't something an alignment would measure. However I would think the wheel would need to shifted significantly before it would affect the steering?

That's kinda what I'm fishing for here -- to see if there's a way the steering parts could be bent or mis-aligned in such a way that a standard wheel alignment wouldn't catch it, but would still affect how the vehicle tracks down the highway.

[Edit] Oh I should also mention, the "wandering" that I'm referring to is NOT that the steering itself is loose. I've experienced that before, but the current situation is that I can feel all the shifts in the road immediately through the steering wheel, and the tires want to follow all those bumps instead of tracking straight over them. Every little change in the road surface make me have to adjust the steering wheel, and large features in the road make the vehicle jump all over. I've been driving this same road to work for more than a dozen years and before the accident the truck tracked smoothly through even the bad parts of this road. Hope that makes more sense
 
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If the wheel moved back, it would be seen in cross caster, so it should effectively been caught (if memory serves).

So if everything in the front end is tight... Time to check the back end.

The torque arm is likely the place to start, and its bushings. Then the left and right upper and lower control arms, mounts, and bushings.

I dont know where you live, but the control arms and the control arm mounts, are both known failure points from rust.
 
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Damn, I'm actually right down the road from you in Longmont.

OK I'm a bit confused by this part. I have a 2004 Trailblazer which has a solid rear axle, so I'm not sure what you mean about rear control arms? And do I have a torque arm? (Trying to find pics on google)

Note that I have the larger axle from an EXT model as I replaced that and the front gearbox years ago to switch to 4.10 gears. Also the rear axle wasn't impacted at all in the accident, only the front wheel (directly) with some crumpling to the fender. And I added an edit to my previous response above, apparently while you were typing your reply, but I tried to clarify what I mean by "wandering".
 
Even thou you have a floating axle, you still have a upper and lower control arm..

THis is the torque arm, goes from the far left in the pic on the axle, to a mount on the body/frame on the truck on the other side.

TorArm2.jpg

Not having much luck finding the upper and lower rear control arm pics...
 
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OK I had to climb under the truck to take a look and refresh my memory, it's been years since I've had to work on anything underneath. So yeah, that horizontal bar feels solid when I pull on each end, no obvious play around the bushings. The same for the (I presume torque arms?) that go from the bottom of the axle towards the front of the vehicle -- they both feel solid as well. The only thing I did notice was my shocks are squishy, but damn I'm not sure if I've ever replaced the rears! Might be time to do that this Summer.

Oh no, you already mentioned the torque arm is the one going across the axle..
 
Well howdy neighbor!!!

Found a pic... Control arms, 2 on each side.

ControlArm.jpg


Edit: In this pic, the upper control arm is actually broken, very common on the GMT360.
 
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The only way to really check the control arms, and torque arm, is to jack up the back end, and using jack stands, on the frame in front of the control arm mounts, letting the axle completely sag. Then you could go in and look at the control arm boxes at the frame (they commonly rust out). The control arms themselves, checking for breaks in the metal, and play in the bushings using a pry bar. Then repeating the process for the torque arm.

There should be minimal, to no play in any of the bushings. Play would be left right up down forwards and backwards.

I hate to say it, it could also be tires. When my old Falken Wildpeaks starting going bad, the truck started doing all kinds of funky stuff.
 
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Rusted out control arm box...

Chevy Trailblazer/GMC Envoy Rear Upper Trailing Arm Mount Repair Kit. US made!
 
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Well I found the upper control arms... no play in them either, but now I see you say to jack it up so I'll have to re-check everything this weekend. Good news is there is nothing but minimal rusting around any of these parts, or maybe it's just road-grime. This vehicle has always lived in Colorado so I think it would be unusual to see that kind of rusting which would damage the frame.

The wheel that got hit actually broke a piece from the edge. There was just enough there to hold the tire in place, I didn't notice it until I got home, but that wheel was replaced immediately. And the tires have all been replaced since then as well (and planning on putting on a new set again this Summer).
 
This is a lightly rusted control arm box. In the back you can see that the rust has eaten thru it.

Chevy Trailblazer/GMC Envoy Rear Upper Trailing Arm Mount Repair Kit. US made!
 
Would be happy to take a look at it with you. You could come down here, or I could head up there. You aint that far away.
 
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TollKeeper said:
Would be happy to take a look at it with you. You could come down here, or I could head up there. You aint that far away.
Click to expand...
If you're willing to take the time to look, I'm willing to come to you. Got any free time this weekend?
 
I am mostly open Friday afternoon. Have an appt at 11am, should be available for most of the day after 1pm.

Saturday I have an doc appt thats walk in before 2 (plus wife pending).

Sunday no real plans that I know of (wife pending LOL)

Would prefer Friday, my Saturday appt is Chiropractic (getting old sucks!)
 
Sorry, didn't mean to rush you... this has been going on for years, it's nothing urgent. Unfortunately this Friday and next I'm already going to be out of the house, but maybe we can try to shoot for another time? I'm burning off some vacation time this Summer anyway so I could do another Friday in June if that works better for you.

In the meantime I still need to replace my thermostat and check what's rattling in the brakes, but we just got done taking the dog for his check-up so everything is hot right now.
 
How about Saturday morning? As long as I am at the Chiro by 1pm, I am good.
 
I could probably do that. What time are you thinking to meet up? I'm not sure how long to expect for any checks you're thinking of, but I suspect I could crawl out of bed and get over there by 10am or so... :biggrin:
 
If you could do 9am, I suspect that would work better.. Let me double check the weather..
 
Weather looks good for now (wait 5 minutes, it will change!).

What you think?
 
Oh I could probably make it by then. I'll shoot you a PM with my cell phone and you can text me your address.

And yeah... the weather showed rain for Saturday when we started chatting this morning. Now the rain is Friday and Sunday, but clear on Saturday. I'm sure it'll change again.
 
PM Sent...

I am not usually online over the weekends, so phone is the best.
 
Well I was hit in the passenger side but it tends to pull more readily towards the driver side... But in general it still bounces to either side depending on the road surface. It's a good thought but after several years I would think I would be seeing some obvious uneven wearing of the brakes?
 
I know that aligning these trucks are a PITA because of the unique way the lower control arms are used to adjust camber and caster. I've had more bad alignments with this truck than good ones. The best one I ever got was from the dealership I used to work at. When I got the new tires less than a year later and I was coaxed into getting the alignment checked "for free", they said it was out and needs an alignment. Well, they screwed it up and the steering wheel was cocked to the left even though it tracked straight. Brought it back TWICE before they finally got it right and it still doesn't feel as good as the previous alignment. Never again.

It might be worth it to try another shop to align it. What's also possible that what they say about a vehicle that's been in an accident never feels right again. Some people even get rid of it because of that feeling. I'm not saying to get rid of yours but maybe this is its new "normal".
 
@Mooseman FWIW I've always gotten my alignments done at the same place, and the same tech has been there for years, so this guy specifically had worked on my truck a few times before the accident, including completely re-doing the whole alignment after I swapped the rear axle and front differential (which required pulling the entire steering rack plus more) to install 4.10 gears and the beefier rear end. So I do have some confidence in the tech who has been trying to fix this, and we talked together several times trying to nail down what could possibly be causing the issue.

But yeah, I get where you're coming from. I had the same optometrist for years but I couldn't afford him when I didn't have insurance so I went to one of those guys inside a Target store. He found my prescription to be significantly different, and I quickly realized that I couldn't see a damn thing. He checked it again, still came up the same. Ugh. Was able to go back to my regular guy a year later and he put me right back almost where I had been before, and golly gee I could see!

I'm not ready to give up on this truck yet, although it's been on my mind because I'm over 190K and despite always using full synthetic I seem to be getting a rattle in the engine when I first leave home and the engine is cold. It could be minor, or it could be major, but because of the steering issues I haven't had the ambition to put a lot of time into more work on it lately. Guess we'll see how it goes, but if the alignment can be fixed then everything else is easy in comparison.

And if you happen to know of an alignment guy around the Northern Colorado area who is good with Trailblazers, let me know, maybe I'll give them a try.
 
Shdwdrgn said:
When I got my truck it run beautiful on the highway, rarely affected by grooves in the road or even cross winds. But now I can't go down smooth cement without it pulling or wandering.
Click to expand...
just to clarify...it RAN beautifully before the accident and but ever since it has had "wandering" problems even with all the work and parts / tire replacements?

Maybe a weak shock on one side can't hold any displacement cause the tire on one side to lift / grab slightly more than the other.
 
Ugh yes, stupid typos... I obviously need more sleep. :biggrin:

So I met with @TollKeeper this morning and we went over quite a bit (THANKS!). One of the bushings in the lower control arm on the driver side is... "weird". It's not right and there is a slight amount of play, although the rubber appears to be intact, but I'll be replacing the arm. This could be the reason the steering has been more annoying lately but the problem did persist even after I replaced both lower arms last time.

Otherwise it looks like it's time to replace the rear shocks, and oddly we discovered a previous owner had replaced ONE of the factory Bilsteins but not both. Very strange way to do maintenance but I'll do a proper replacement of the pair this Summer. Need to re-grease the various ball joints and there was some light scale around the upper rear control arms but nothing rusting through (one advantage of the Colorado desert climate!). Overall, just really no sign of what could be causing this issue.

So as I was driving down the highway and actually paying more attention to the steering, I thought I would add some more details again. Going down a smooth highway, it does run relatively straight. Going down a back country highway with wear grooves, it wants to go all over. When I first got the truck I marveled at the fact that I could let go of the steering wheel and it could stay in my lane for quite some time. These days a mild breeze or a pebble in the road will toss me into the other lane. I simply cannot let go of the steering wheel at any time. Even coasting in a parking lot, it will turn to one side or the other depending on the direction of the slope of the pavement. Normally with a good alignment the vehicle should want to pull itself straight, while my truck seems to want to pull into a turn at all times.

So some time here in June I will be getting everything on hand to replace the one lower control arm, both back shocks, and both rear brakes, then take it in to get new tires and a fresh alignment. Everything else appears to be good and tight, so there's no obvious reason for the alignment issues, but I'll cross my fingers that maybe there was just an issue with that control arm the last time I replaced it (and which also caused the current bushing problem). And maybe I can better explain the issue to the alignment guy this time.
 
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Hey I'm looking into replacing the rear shocks, can anyone help me confirm that the Bilstein 4600 Series are correct for the 2004 Trailblazer? Looks like the part# on Amazon is 24-103350. I don't want to go any stiffer than stock, and even slightly softer would be fine, but I'm having trouble finding anything that verifies which model the OEM Bilsteins were.
 
Whatever you use in the front, I would suggest you use in the rear. Bilstein front, Bilstein rear.

That said, remember I pointed out that the upper strut bearing plate on one of the sides looked "odd", and possibly worn. I dont remember which side it was.

You having factory struts, although not leaking, might be something to consider on your suspension re-refresh. If you do decide to do your front struts... Be very careful with which even on it is showing that wear. My Envoy (might have been the Saab, cant remember), when I pulled the strut out, and laid it on the ground, the upper strut bearing plate bushing failed, and everything shot everywhere. If I had been sitting in a different spot, I could have been injured, possibly seriously.

That lower control arm bracket on the drivers side was stupid puzzling. No matter how much I think about it, it just doesnt make sense. It had very minimal play, but the way the bolt was positioned on the bushing didnt make sense. Its supposed to be centered, but the bolt was all the way to the outside edge of the bushing, with minimal play, and as far as I could tell, no rot/wear on the bushing itself.

Just to give an idea to everyone else what I saw during my inspection..

His front passenger side, which is the corner that he had the accident on I believe?

Front end: Everything looked nearly spotless, and in rather good condition. His ball joints were a bit dry. We tried greasing them, but my grease gun was out of grease. His drivers side is where things went a bit sideways with the bracket looking in good shape, but the bushing not making any sense (wish I had gotten a picture of it). It appeared as if his front diff might have been leaking, but after checking the diff fluid level, I came to the conclusion that it was coming from a different location, as the diff was completely full, and with clean fluid. There was no play in any bushings that I checked other than a minimal amount of play in the odd bushing. His power steering rack was tight, clean, with no visual signs of leaks. We did find the rubber power steering line separator just sitting on the control arm. Surprised it had not just flown off. His power steering lines themselves were in good shape. No rust, or anything.

Rear End: Everything was good and tight. Odd thing finding the mis-matched rear shocks. His passenger rear was a OEM Bilstein. I have no idea what his drivers side was. Did not locate a part number. It had a sticker on it, but nothing informative, and that sticker didnt match any of the stickers on the one from the passenger side Bilstein. His upper control arm rear mounts were, as typical, full of grit, and dirt, and rust scale. But nothing that would amount to an issue. The lower control arm bushings on the passenger side were good and tight, with good solid rubbers. His upper control arm bushings on the rear side were more soft than I would like to see, but in no way were worn out. His drivers side upper and lower control arms were identical, the rear most bushing were good, his front most bushings were again softer than I would like to see, but again were not worn out in any way. Torque arm and bushings were excellent.

I advised him what I would do. Drill a relief hole in the bottom of the upper control arm bracket as to allow water and grit/grime to have an escape, and wash it out. If he felt like it, pull the upper control arm, wire wheel it down, paint it, or rust reformer and paint, put it back together, and relief hole it.

@Shdwdrgn - I looked around at the Denver LKQ, they have 2 trailblazers with SS wheels!

I found a blue trailblazer at the LKQ Denver location, but the fenders, and hood, both had significant clear coat peel on sun facing surfaces.
1748752828445.png

I found a Second one at the same yard that has a good hood, and drivers side fender, but had a non-painted passenger side fender. But the Blue looked possibly like a deeper blue? I didnt see a paint code. 2008 Trailblazer VIN 1GNDT13S682182113 maybe someone could see if it matches your vin?

1748752957600.png

There was a 3rd one I saw at the Aurora LKQ, but it was the 2 tone, blue over gold/silver. That color combo would not flow correctly with your truck.

Back at the Denver yard, they did have a 2003 with your interior, that looked in decent shape..
1748754062269.png
 
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I also got to show off my XUV a little bit... Other than the battery being dead...

He had never seen the XUV, or even knew about them. It was cool to show off those features.

Speaking of which, LKQ also has an identical twin to my XUV in the yard. Dont need any parts at the moment thou.
 
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Hmm I wonder if it would be better to replace the front struts first, and come back to the rear shocks at a later time? With the new tires also coming up shortly, funding is going to get tight. Also, am I remembering correctly that a new alignment is required after replacing the front struts? If so then it would make more sense to get all the front-end parts done at once I think.

Yeah I think that 2008 is a different color, it should look that dark even under clouds. Mine is the indego blue. Also hard to tell from the pic if that seat is a two-tone or just all light gray (mine is two-tone). I see someone already claimed the lid for the center console there... that's also something I need to replace, my latch has been broken for years.

Considering if I were going to completely fix my truck, I would need to replace both front fenders, the hood, and three doors, I was thinking this morning that perhaps it would make more sense if I found someone selling one real cheap nearby that I could tow to my house, swap out the parts, then re-sell the remainder.
 
Its a shame I cant bid on this one. Its not in my classification to bid on... But it is the right color.


It will likely sell cheap, but by the time the auction fees and all that are done, it will probably be around 1200 or so.

As for your question on the struts. Technically, no you dont have to do an alignment after replacing the struts on this platform, as the struts are not a key component of that.

Are you supposed to? Yes. Did I do an alignment after my strut fiasco? Nope. Everything else was new, so it should not made a difference. And it drives true and straight.

Yes the seats I pictured above are of the 2 tone variety.
 
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Ah that auction one is no good, it doesn't have the trim pieces around the door latches that I need... :biggrin: I've never seen an online car auction before, how do you figure up what the auction fees would be? Of course the seller has a reserve value so it would likely go much higher than this, but otherwise it's a shame because I see a lot of pieces there I could really use. How do you even get started on a site like that?

I guess next weekend I'll have to try and take a closer look at the strut tower to see if there's any sign of rusting around that top plate that might indicate it's actually about to fail. Feels like I have a lot of things lined up that need to get done on the truck this Summer but it will be another couple weeks before I can even get started,
 
That particular auction does have a reserve. I doubt it will meet it.

They do have auctions with no reserve thou.

But Colorado has 2 different salvage brands. Public Salvage, and Dealer Salvage.

I only bid on Public, as no license is required. If I do find something that does require a dealers license, than I bid on it thru a 3rd party site. But the auction fees double because of the 3rd party, and the delivery fees go up.

The one I posted above is a dealer salvage. Likely to make its way to LKQ or PnP.

I am a member of CoPart, so I have a tab I can click to estimate the auction fees.

1748876240538.png
1748876286129.png

As for getting into it, its pretty simple, to a point.

Used to be you could buy something on your account only under a certain price, or with a deposit over that price. Last year that made it so you have to be a member, which is a multi-tier fee system, and then you could buy something at a certain price or below, or with a deposit above that price.

I paid for a membership, so I have a bid limit of $2000 as long as it has a public salvage title. And you have to watch the public salvage stuff too. I have been waiting for a month for a Buick Rainier to come to auction that was listed as a public salvage. Friday, they updated the listing to a dealer salvage. Makes it so I cant bid on it anymore, unless I go to the 3rd party site, and I am not sure it would be worth it.


That is the one I want to bid on, third line down says CO - Salvage Title which means dealer only.


This one is a public (for now) sale. Same location, 3rd line down says public.
 
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Wow, so basically an 87% auction fee? That's massive! Seems like I would be better off just keeping an eye on craigslist.

I was checking on prices for the front struts, looks like Bilsteins don't come with the top mounting plate (the part you thought was questionable). Now I'm wondering if maybe I should just replace those plates and leave the struts alone since they still felt pretty good?
 
No, its not 87%, its a stepped system, and type of payment.


You could just replace the upper strut bearing plate, but you would still have to completely disassemble the whole strut to do it. Most struts, unless uni-struts (the ones I told you to stay away from), dont come with the upper strut bearing plate.

In my opinion: If your not replacing the strut. Leave it alone. The upper strut bearing plate could completely fail, and you would be safe to drive. It would just start causing some noise in there, which would let you know you need to do the repair. If you were driving a car that the strut was a physical part of alignment, and everything else (like most FWD cars), than I would say do the repair.
 
OK, thanks for that clarification. Guess I'll leave it alone for now then and just replace the back shocks. I was semi-hopeful that maybe this could affect the alignment enough to cause the issues I'm seeing, the struts are one of very few pieces that haven't been disassembled since the accident
 
Today I replaced the front brake pads and rotors. Removed the splash plates and didn't hear any further rattling going down the street. One thing I wasn't happy about, when I pulled the center nut off the axles one side was finger tight and the other side was about 1/8 turn loose. Not sure why they backed off. I'm not sure of the torque spec for those nuts, but this time I cranked them down with the breaker-bar.

After that I went to get a quote from Big-O for new tires. Apparently the ones I have always gotten were made by Cooper, but t\now they are made by Toyo. Not sure if that's good or bad? Unfortunately it looks like I only got 38k miles out of this set of tires -- ouch! But I got a good rebate for the new set, saved enough that I decided I'll go ahead and replace the front struts while I'm working on everything else. And the new lower control arm and back shocks arrived today. Figure I'll try to do the shocks/struts one weekend, then the LCA and new tires + alignment another weekend. Should be good to go for awhile then.
 
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